Monday, 12 March, 2007

by Richard Margetson
ABC

PROGRAM: 105.7 8DDD FM LATE MORNINGS
TIME: 9.20AM
DATE: Monday 12th March 2007
REPORTER: RICHARD MARGETSON
INTERVIEWEE: WARREN SNOWDON
RE: MUCKATY STATION

07T337

I don't really know if you've got the room, but how much would it take for you to have a nuclear store in your backyard? Actually, I was reading the Australian on the weekend and there was some pictures of Lucas Heights, showing what they had stored there already. It was quite interesting to see the big barrels and see how much stuff you might be talking about should you end up with a nuclear waste depository. We're trying to track down various parts of this story, because according to reports in the papers on the weekend, the owners of Muckaty Station are being offered $9 million every five years for a part of their land to become that nuclear storehouse, the country's nuclear storehouse.
It sounds like a good offer, maybe an offer too good to refuse, and it's one that might come as a surprise to Julie Bishop, the Minister for Education, Science and Training actually spoke to Leon Compton last week and had this to say when asked if Muckaty was actually even being considered as a waste depository.

**Extract transcript 07T316 Julie Bishop speaking on ABC Morning Program
07/03/07**

BISHOP It hasn't been put to me formally. The three sites are defence sites, they are currently listed for assessment for my consideration. But the Act, the Commonwealth Radioactive Waste Management Act does provide the opportunity for the Northern Territory Government or an aboriginal land council to nominate additional sites.

REPTR Julie Bishop, your science department told us a fortnight ago that Muckaty station was being considered.

BISHOP Well I have not received a formal nomination. Now I don't work on rumour or hearsay, I work on what's actually put before me and I haven't received a formal nomination.

**EXTRACT ENDS**

There we are, Julie Bishop speaking on 105.7 ABC Darwin just a few days ago with Leon Compton here. Joining us this morning Warren Snowdon, Federal Member for Lingiari.

REPTR Warren, G'day.

SNOWDON G'day mate and a former Latin and French student.

REPTR Oh really, give me your best bit of Latin off the top of your head.

SNOWDON Oh mate I couldn't, -(inaudible); truth in drinking, no.

REPTR [Richard speaks in French] I mean have you ever used your French?

SNOWDON Well I did as it happens I travelled to Europe as a younger person, much younger person, and I found it quite useful, very useful in fact. The Latin, I was not quite as successful as your previous caller I must admit. But it was what we had to do, every student at the school that I went to did Latin for at least four years and then we, most students did two languages. But I wasn't a great listener.

REPTR I must admit I do feel a bit robbed by my education that they pulled Latin out of the, and much as everybody talks about oh it was such a drag or whatever, it's just one of those ones that can carry you a long way in later life. Anyway, these things will be discussed as time goes on. Those comments there from Julie Bishop a few days ago. We're trying to work our way through a lot of different bits of information around Muckaty Station. Traditional owners being offered around $9 million every five years for a hundred years, it sounds like easy money, but how much do you know about that plan?

SNOWDON I know absolutely nothing about that plan. All I know is what I've seen reported and what you've published over the ABC. But I think it's very disingenuous of Julie Bishop to tell us she hasn't received a formal application she's fully aware of what's going on here. Her department has been in discussion with this community or members of this community for some time, they've hosted at least one trip, possible two trips down to ANSTO in Sydney, there is clearly a dispute between the traditional owners about whether or not there's merit in this proposal. So I think she's being very disingenuous. The thing that we need to understand though is that she's passed, it'd be good to ask her why she didn't comment on this, she's given herself the right to disregard or bypass effectively the requirements under the Land Rights Act for nomination of any site. So that means

REPTR - I have to say that I haven't played the interview in full and I'm unsure whether she was asked to comment that at the time

SNOWDON -And I appreciate that and I don't want to verbal her, but I think the bottom line is though that legislation was passed at the end of last year, which effectively says that if there's a failure to comply with the rules about nomination including consultation with traditional owners, informed consent etcetera, if there's failure to comply with these rules, these rules they'll have no legal effect, i.e. the nomination will still be valid. So there is a real issue here about how this community could be divided and potentially a group of people in the community could pursue a nomination to the detriment of other people and that nomination be accepted even though the normal processes under the Land Rights Act may not have been successfully proceeded with.

REPTR The other main player in all of this is the Northern Land Council. Now Norman Fry was quoted in a written statement to news.com saying privacy and confidentiality requirements mean that the NLC is not prepared to comment regarding matters discussed at the meetings, these are the meetings held at Muckaty Station. From within those meetings there seems to have come, well at the moment, rumour or some kind of information coming our way that there has been money offered from the Federal Government to the Northern Land Council to distribute amongst the traditional owners. Have you had any contact with the NLC to get some idea about what they -

SNOWDON I've had periodic contact with the NLC, no-one within the NLC has raised this matter with me I have to say. But let me just make this observation, and I think it's very important that we do this. The Northern Land Council, Central Land Council, Tiwi Land Council, Anindilyakwa Land Council, they're in negotiations on an ongoing basis of various commercial interests about development on Aboriginal land. It's quite appropriate for them to have those discussions and consultations and it's also appropriate for them to keep them confidential. The difficulty here is that there's so much public interest in the question of waste disposal and any potential for a decision to be taken by the Northern Land Council as a result of the instructions from traditional owners and thereby pursue a site in each area, there is such potential, there is such public interest in it that it's very contentious

REPTR Where do you see your role in amongst that though? Are you a fulcrum between the groups that are being mentioned to find out what is going on?

SNOWDON Again, that's a role, a statutory responsibility which the Northern Land Council has. I mean I have an interest and I'd like to be briefed, but frankly it's, well I mean my advocacy is around the issue of nuclear waste, I'm concerned about the prospect of any nuclear waste repository in the Northern Territory without the agreement of people and without proper consultation to the discussion going on. And we need also to know that even if the government were to pursue this proposal, as I understand it the scientific work won't have been done yet because they couldn't have done it without the agreement of traditional owners in the first place. So there's no guarantee ultimately this will be the site. Secondly, and this is very important as well, in passing the legislation into the last year, not only did the government give itself the right to bypass the obligations that currently exist under the Land Rights Act, it also made sure that any decision it took was not appealable. So the procedural rights that people might otherwise have will be foregone as a result of legislation which has passed.

REPTR There does seem to be spreading news that there are a certain group of traditional owners who are very keen to see the nuclear waste depository here.

SNOWDON Oh look there's no doubt, from what I understand, that there is a group of traditional owners who have been squired and duchessed by interests who are involved in this. And there are other traditional owners who live and around Tennant Creek who are most concerned about it and have expressed their concern and they want to make sure that their voice is properly heard.

REPTR Lingiari must indeed be the prime candidate spot for the waste to go though don't you think.

SNOWDON We know already that the government's other three sites are all in Lingiari. The truth of it is of course that the site that was given as the site, which would meet the best interests of the Australian community was Woomerra. I mean there's no, I mean Labor's committed to is not foisting a site on any community anywhere in Australia and undertaking a process of discussion and consultation about where a site should take place, recognising that a national site ultimately has to be found.

REPTR Well it's amazing to me that you as a federal member are probably in just nearly as darker waters as we here at the ABC currently in terms of what we're reading.

SNOWDON Well ANSTO, you know, the nuclear science mob haven't bothered to talk to me about it.

REPTR Do you actively go searching for that information?

SNOWDON I look for that information. But ultimately, I mean this is the, I mean Trish Crossin has asked questions of these people at the Senate Estimates hearings, to no avail. They are not prepared to disclose the information, they are keeping this thing so close to their chest, there's no transparency and there's no accountability. And the bottom line is that ultimately even if a site in and around Muckaty was to be the eventual site for a repository, the bottom line is there should be a process of transparency and accountability for the siting of that waste dump

REPTR Warren Snowdon, we've got to go, but thanks for your comments this morning and we'll, I mean I guess in many ways we're waiting to find out what we can. And unless Norman Fry and the NLC come forward with some degree of information about what discussions were held on Muckaty Station, we will be like you, I guess slightly in the dark.

SNOWDON Oh well that's true, but also the commonwealth has a responsibility, they're the governing body after all, I mean they're the people who are seeking this site, they have a responsibility to the Australian community to tell us what the hell's going on. The bottom line also is that there are people who are traditional owners who are very concerned about this site, and they will have that information. And it's true that there is concern about whether or not there's been selective discussion with people or not. All this stuff will come to light I imagine. But what I just said at the outset, even if all the discussions took place, there's no obligation on the commonwealth to abide by the requirements that exist under the Land Rights Act, and requirements it previously gave itself last year, you can bypass them without any, without any, without, well basically with impunity.

REPTR Warren Snowdon thank you.

SNOWDON Cheers.

ENDS.