Nuclear waste dump debate

Friday 28 October 2005
ABC TV NT Stateline

MELINDA JAMES:
Hello and welcome to Territory Stateline.
I'm Melinda James.
This week .... A discussion about the Federal Government's plans to build a nuclear waste dump in the Northern Territory.
It's been three months since the government revealed the controversial proposal.
The government says a national repository for radioactive waste is desperately needed... And it appears almost inevitable that it will be built here in the Territory.
In a sign of just how politically sensitive the issue is.. Major voices in the debate have withdrawn at the last minute from our forum, after they agreed earlier in the week to take part.
The Chief Minister Clare Martin pulled out just two hours before the program was recorded today, while the CLP Senator Nigel Scullion withdrew yesterday.
And after speaking out so strongly on the issue over the past week, the Northern Land Council's Norman Fry has also declined.
So the stayers joining me to discuss the waste dump ...include Labor Senator Trish Crossin,
And the CLP's Federal Member for Solomon David Tollner.
And joining us from Sydney is Dr Ron Cameron from the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation
In Melbourne is the Australian conservation foundation's Dave Sweeney
And in Alice Springs is the Central Land Council's David Ross
We'll move on to some of the finer details of the proposal shortly.. Particularly the environmental and scientific aspects.....
But first, this issue is still highly politically sensitive...

What do you make of the fact that both Nigel Scullion and Clare Martin pulled out of this forum at the eleventh hour?

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER:
Well I don’t know Clare Martins reasons, but certainly Nigel was called away to an urgent meeting and couldn’t attend he asked me to do it and I’ve stepped in to his shoes.

MELINDA JAMES:
And Trish Crossin what’s your take on the no shows?

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
Well I think Senator Scullion has been running from this issue from day one, now that the heat will actually be on him to make decisions in the coming weeks about this legislation so meetings can be put off and postponed, and I understand that Clare was coming on the basis that Nigel would be here.

MELINDA JAMES:
Why would she not come on if Nigel Scullion were not here?

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
Well as I said the heat is going to come down on Nigel now he is the main player in this when the legislation gets to the senate because of the senate numbers, he is the person that we all want to be talking to and hearing what he is going to do about this.

MELINDA JAMES:
Well okay, lets move on to the core of the issue with you Trish Crossin, Federally Labor has acknowledged the need for a nuclear waste dump, why have you spoken out against it? Are you opposed to the idea of a national nuclear waste dump, or are you opposed to having it just in the Territory?

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
What we would actually like to see is a national strategy about how this is going to be handled, we’ve seen some very bad pubic policy from the Howard government on this inconsistencies and lies, it was going to be offshore, then we hear that it wasn’t going to be in the Territory, now it is going to be in the Territory, it was going to be at Woomera and when Mike Ran and the SA government objected, it wasn’t going to be there either…

MELINDA JAMES:
But your not opposed to the notion per say of a national nuclear waste dump hear. You acknowledge that it is necessary?

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
Well what we are saying is that there is a need to get all states and territory around the table to have a look at this. It may well be that the best international best practice is that you store this waste at the point of production, and it may well be that you don’t have one particular national waste dump, there might be a number, but what we are actually saying is that that’s have never been discussed or debated in this country because of lack of leadership from the federal government.

MELINDA JAMES:
We will move onto some of those details later..David Tollner there is some confusion in the publics mind about the CLP’s position on this issue, the Territory Opposition Leader Jodeen Carney is against it, what is CLP’s official position on this proposal?

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.:
Well firstly Melinda I should correct you yet again a dump is an emotive term used by the ABC and the Labor party….

MELINDA JAMES:
Semantics aside..

MELINDA JAMES:
No, no no, its not semantics I mean most media….

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
Well hang on a Melinda lets look at….

MELINDA JAMES:
Trish hold on a moment…I don’t want to get bogged down in this issue for the purposes for this forum people can refer to this in whichever way they choose…

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
You have been heard to refer to this is a dump in a radio interview on the 29th of September last year…you weren’t precious about using the word dump back then Dave?…

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.:
I don’t mind, I don’t mind the Labor Party all anybody else referring to it but when it comes to media outlets I think you have to be a little bit objective, the NT News here in Darwin has put in place a policy some six weeks ago that it will not use the term dump unless it is referred to specifically….

MELINDA JAMES:
Dave I don’t, I don’t want to get bogged down…

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
Dave you have used the word dump, all last year….

MELINDA JAMES:
..we have a lot to get through, we have a lot to get through for the purposes of you answering this question, what is, is this your personal position on the facility or is this the CLP’s official position?

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.:
Now the CLP is virulently apposed to being lied too in the lead up to the election, and that’s what Jodeen Carney said, that’s what i've said, that’s what Nigel Scullion has said, the fact is we don’t like it. We have retested that objection with Canberra and now it is time to move on, the fact is this facility is coming and we need to discuss things like where it is going, what benefits are going to be derived for the Territory and where it, the best locations, those sorts of issues need to be discussed, rather then this sort of heads in the sand approach, saying oh no no, lets stop it….because the fact is that we cant.

MELINDA JAMES:
Lets turn to the experts, Dr Ron Cameron in Sydney can I ask you how urgently does Australia need a national repository?

THE AUSTRALIAN NUCLEAR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANISATION DR RON CAMERON:
Well, when you think we have thirty different sites just in the Commonwealth where waste has been stored, it makes sense and it is in international Best practice that we should choose a purpose built facility in one place and make sure we can store it there appropriately and safely in accordance with those international regulations.

MELINDA JAMES:
Okay well David Ross lets move to you and get the CLC’s position what’s the feeling among Traditional owners in Central Australia about the two sites short-listed there?

CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL'S DAVID ROSS:
Well look all the aboriginal people in central Australia and particularly the traditional owners for both the sites that have been proposed by the commonwealth in Central Australia, traditional owners have made it very clear that they do not want any, any facility built on their country, its just very, very simple they just don’t want it.

MELINDA JAMES:
What is the reason behind them not wanting it?

CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL'S DAVID ROSS:
Well look lets be quite open about it I mean we have only..people have had their land back for in the Territory for some thing like thirty years now where people have had the right to make decisions about there country in terms of the people living there, in Mt Everadd and they have only had title for there land for something like ten to twelve years in the case of the Eastern side of AlcudaI I mean that property was purchased around 1994-95 by ATSIC, they’ve been through a land claim, considered by the Judge at that time as probably one of the most, well probably the strongest land claim that he had anything to do with, yet those people are still waiting for the title to there country, so it is that sort of issue and they have run that place as a very successful pastoral lease they have concerns that there cattle would not be solved if there is a site there, there is all the perceptions about these sorts of things …

MELINDA JAMES:
David Ross if I could cut you off there and we will get back to you but, can I ask Dave Sweeny, that there is that perception out there that this radioactive waste is unsafe, what scientific evidence do you have to back up that claim?

AUSTRALIAN CONSERVATION FOUNDATION'S DAVE SWEENEY:
Well there is very strong evidence about the dangers off radioactive material and the dangers of radioactive waste. There is a strong body of national and international evidence that it shows that it is harmful material it is carcinogenic, immunogenic it can lead to a range of significant diseases and problems, it can be mobilized in a range of waterways, wind and different things if exposed. There is no question that radioactive waste is serious stuff and it needs to be seriously and responsibly managed and I suppose our concern is that this government proposal is a bad proposal, a bad project, it has been driven by a bad policy and process, and has been based on broken promises, it is really not a good way forward for either the Territory or Australia.

MELINDA JAMES:
Well Dr Cameron can I get you to respond to those claims there are clearly concerns about the Material that is to be stored and/or disposed of at this facility, what is the most hazardous waste that the Territory will receive?

THE AUSTRALIAN NUCLEAR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANISATION DR RON CAMERON:
Well it is important to note that the majority of this waste is low level waste that is gloves, and paper and glassware and material that is used in producing radiopharmaceuticals in addition we have a large quantity of contaminated soil. All that material can be held safely in drums, that process happens overseas, it has gone on safely there is a repository of this type in the Champagne district of France it doesn’t cause them any concerns with regard to tourism or sales, an addition we have some intermediate level waste that we currently have, and we have a legacy issue that we need to deal with, we also have some waste that will be returning from overseas from reprocessing of spent fuel rods, that’s the higher activity waste, but again the technology to manage that safely and to store it safely has been known for many years and is practiced around the world.

MELINDA JAMES:
Trish Crossin after listening to Dr Cameron’s assurances there can you tell Territorians if you think a nuclear dump is safe?

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
If its that safe put it at Lucas heights, if its that safe put it at the base of new reactor that this governments wants built, I have not heard yet a scientific or reasonable argument why it needs to be stored…

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.:
Trish if we have a dump at the bottom of Darwin hospital …

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
I haven’t heard a scientific reason why it has to be stored in the Centre of this country and in the NT, so if its that safe put it at Sydney, put it at Lucas heights, if we are so reassured about how safe it is.

MELINDA JAMES:
Are you re-assured by Dr Cameron’s comments Dave Tollner?
CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER:.
Look what Dr Cameron has said makes eminent sense, here in the NT we have waste in the basement of the Hospital, we have waste at Mt Todd mine, we have waste in Kakadu at Gambling Falls, and goodness knows where else this stuff is scattered around the Territory the Chief Minister won’t tell anyone where the waste is scattered, the view is and I share that view, its far more environmentally correct, its far more, far safer to have all of these built, put in a purpose built facility from everything that I can understand is a huge amounts of money will be going into the best science and technology will be used, and there are some wonderful spin-offs for the Territory community as well..

MELINDA JAMES:
Dr Cameron can you give us the scientific reasons, the scientific answer to that question that is on every bodies lips, if it is that safe why not just keep it at Lucas Heights?

THE AUSTRALIAN NUCLEAR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANISATION DR RON CAMERON:
Well you have to remember that only 40% of the low level waste actually comes from Lucas Heights, there are 30 other sites commonwealth sites were the waste should be taken from and put in a purpose built facility that is international best practice that enables us to choose a site with all the right characteristics that we can ensure safety, and when we look at a site we usually look at a site that is remote from people but is easy to get to in terms of transport, we look at the site that can be made be secure, and looked after and monitored properly and we look for a sit that we can build a really good engineering facility that ensures that material will be safely stored over a period of time that it needs to be, so we were just following what is international best practice, lets not have it all over the place, lets have it in one place that can be safely managed.

MELINDA JAMES:
Well the events of the recent week have meant that that site selection process could change dramatically, Dave Tollner you have had meetings with the Northern Land Council as recently as yesterday, is the federal government going to embrace there offer of aboriginal land?

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER:.
The fact is that the NLC hasn’t said that they want a facility on their land, we should be very clear about that, what they have said is that they want to be involved in the negotiations, if it is going to be coming to the Territory which it will, they want to have a say in the location of that, and I signaled some weeks ago together with Nigel Scullion, that the CLP will be moving amendments to the legislation in order to firstly allow the NT government to have some say on the location in the NT, but secondly and very importantly to let the great land holders of the NT i.e., traditional owners also have some input into that decision .

MELINDA JAMES:
How realistic is it that the federal government will broaden the search though and take up the NLC’s offer, haven’t the NLC just thrown you a political lifeline in coming out in support of the …

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.:
Well there is no reason that I know of that the NLC are going to be throwing us a political lifeline, but I should say that the NLC have taken a practical and reasonable approach to this, they understand that 50% or over 50% of the land in NT is privately owned by aboriginal people, and they have a big stake at this and they want to be at the table. ..

MELINDA JAMES:

Can I move to Trish Crossin then, if the federal government does take up the NLC’S offer at the request to traditional owners, doesn’t that side line that Territory government? The Territory government suddenly becomes irrelevant in this whole debate?

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
I think there is two issues here, the NLC the executive it not necessarily reflecting the view of the traditional owners, we know that the traditional owners in the Katherine region have objected to the site at fishers ridge being chosen, so lets not confuse the NLC’s view with the views of with that of the traditional owners. But if in fact the legislation that David is talking about is to be amended, and we have yet to see the amendments in opposition, so if you are really serious about that, you might have at least given us the amendments shown us those amendments less than 48 hours before it is due to be debated in the house of reps, but if in fact you want o amend this legislation to allow traditional owners or the Land Council to have a say, and you want actually make sure that the NT Government has a say, why is there a necessity for this legislation at all then? In the federal parliament if you are going to allow the two main players in this to have a say in this why do you need the legislation at all down there?

MELINDA JAMES:
Well David Ross can I put to you, if the commonwealth does accept the NLC’s offer will the CLC reconsider their stance?

CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL'S DAVID ROSS:
No the CLC has made it very clear to the NLC that we do not agree with their position, we’ve written to Senator Nelson to let him know that we don’t agree with that position, and people of Central Australia are dead against having any waste dump site anywhere in Central Australia full stop, that’s the position of aboriginal people throughout central Australia and they have made that very clear on a number of occasions in meetings and consultations that we’ve had and it is not necessary for us to be a part of that. If the NLC wants to go down that track, look that’s a decision that they have made and that’s a decision that they have to live with into the future, that’s not something that people in central Australia are a party to.

MELINDA JAMES:
Well Dave Sweeny can I ask you, your organization the Australian Conservation Foundation has long been closely associated with indigenous groups. What do you make of the contrast of the Northern and Central land councils?

AUSTRALIAN CONSERVATION FOUNDATION'S DAVE SWEENEY:
Well the first comment I say is there is a strange sense of inevitability, Dave Tollner keeps saying this dump is coming to the NT, I think that one thing to get really clear is that the only reason that this dump will come to the NT is because Senator Nigel Scullion would actually support it and actively support it and the man who said ‘not on my watch” ..the man that said he will cross the floor to defend the Territories interest and oppose this dump would actively support it, one more broken promise that is the only bit on inevitability here, in relation to the NLC’s position it is a position that’s not consistent with aboriginal experience around the rest of the country. Aboriginal people in S.A. led a spirited and proud and very effective defense of there country and there culture against this dump planned for eight years, and that’s why the Territory is facing it now, not science, straight up politics, aboriginal people and the wider S.A community said no, we are not going to be imposed on, so the federal government went to what they saw was the weakest link now I think that the NLC position there is some clear misunderstandings, and incorrect aspects of information, there saying that there is a lot of dollars in development potential, and Dave Tollner talks about spin off Territory, the commonwealth governments own opinion and statements in review of the S.A. proposals says don’t talk up dollars, don’t talk up employment they are marginal, lets be fair dinkum, this is a road a fence, and a shed it is not a future for economical development it is not a good way forward, and if it’s the best that we can offer as a Nation to our most marginalized people, the people at our lowest indices at all our social end economic indicators if the best we can say is put your hand up for a radio active waste dump, and that’s you ticket out of hear that’s a failure for the whole country and that’s a failure of government policy and process…

MELINDA JAMES:
…Dave Sweeny

AUSTRALIAN CONSERVATION FOUNDATION'S DAVE SWEENEY:
.. .this is turning into a shabby bidding war…

MELINDA JAMES:
…Dave Sweeney this issue is highly political so I’d like to ask Ron Cameron, you are a scientist, and we have heard from other scientists that the three proposed sites in the Territory are not the most suitable, does that concern you that the final decisions will likely be dictated by politics and not science?

THE AUSTRALIAN NUCLEAR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANISATION DR RON CAMERON:
Well I mean technically there would be many sites that would be suitable for such a repository we know a lot in the engineering sense, about how to engineer them safely, people elsewhere in the world don’t have the advantage that Australia has to have all these sites with good geology, and good access to them, they have built repositories in much worse conditional that what we are talking about here so it is possible to engineer sites in various environments but we have some very good sites in the NT which will be suitable for a repository as well as a store.

MELINDA JAMES:
Well we have heard that the Top End wouldn’t be as suitable as say the deserts of central Australia because of heavy rainfall, is that the case?

THE AUSTRALIAN NUCLEAR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANISATION DR RON CAMERON:
Well ideally I mean you go through a series of criteria, these criteria are actually established internationally, and a re used internationally, they are to do with access, stability of the soil, security of containment etc, there are a number of sites that would meet those criteria throughout the NT in addition of course we would value distance from water table as another good criteria, but as I said it is possible to engineer a barriers, where geological barriers are not present.

MELINDA JAMES:
Dave Sweeny?

AUSTRALIAN CONSERVATION FOUNDATION'S DAVE SWEENEY:
As Dr Cameron would know another citing criteria in international convention and practice is community consent and social licence, and there has been no attempt to engage with the community, and there is an active attempt now to gag the community, and that is not in a national best practice, and that is not acceptable practice hear or overseas, its not responsible.

MELINDA JAMES:
Dave Tollner can you respond to that?..has there been a lack of consultation?

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.:
I have will gladly respond to it, in the point of the CLC they have taken exactly the same approach to this as Clare Martin, they refuse to take on board information, ANSTO (Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation) hasn’t been invited to give a briefing to the…

CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL'S DAVID ROSS:
Yes they have in a number of occasions…

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.:
..well in any case…

CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL'S DAVID ROSS:
.. they have had a number of meetings within central Australia thank you …

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.
..well in any case Mr Ross they have not been invited to give a full briefing to the full board of the CLC and in actual fact the person who presented the full briefing to the full board at Bonior is a well known Green, Left of staff member who’s de facto is an aboriginal Green activist…

CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL'S DAVID ROSS:
…That information given to you… That information given to you, by the Northern Land council you ought to be very careful because that’s actionable that information…

MELINDA JAMES:
…Well David Ross can we..

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.
..now let me finish…Clare Martin has taken exactly the same approach on several occasions she has been offered briefings by ANSTO she has been offered to visit the facility at Luca Heights, she’s knocked that back as have all her cabinet ministers, the NLC on the other hand been have had their full council briefed by ANSTO…

CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL'S DAVID ROSS
..have they talked to any traditional owners, have they?..

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.
Additionally when you say that there is no community support, we already know that the NT Chamber of Commerce are acting in a supportive way, as is the Minerals Council as is the Cancer council..traditional owners don’t want it at all, well who is Galloway Yunupingu?
I mean he is probably the most senior traditional owner that we have in the Territory and he is saying, he’s quite happy for this to occur on his land..

MELINDA JAMES:
Dave Tollner can we gat a brief response From David Ross on what Dave Tollner has just said.

CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL'S DAVID ROSS:
We have had briefings from DEST (Department of Education, Science and Training) and ANSTO representatives and so that’s taken place and that has been given to traditional owners, so you are incorrect on those points, now land owners have made it very clear that they do not want any, any dumps on their country…

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER:.
…well this isn’t on there country, for a start lets be clear about that…

CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL'S DAVID ROSS:
Who’s country..

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER:.
..this is commonwealth land …this is commonwealth land it is not part of…

CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL'S DAVID ROSS:
…never mind that, never mind, never mind what whit mans title is on top of this land….it still belongs to

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER:.
.. okay, you’re right now..

CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL'S DAVID ROSS:
..aboriginal people all right, its still there country and they still have their view regardless of

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER:.
..well the title actually belongs to the commonwealth..

MELINDA JAMES:
..okay can I move on now…

CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL'S DAVID ROSS:
..now stop being rude and now stop being rude, I just want to make one other point to what you had to say, now if Mr Yunupingu would like to discuss with you and offer you part of his country, then we certainly won’t stand in his way and you are more than welcome to go and talk to him…and its not our business…

MELINDA JAMES:
David Ross.. David Ross..I would like to get this back on track..
Can we talk about the recent political events, David Tollner you and Nigel Scullion met with Clare Martin on Monday, and all three of you have mad your positions very clear publicly, but this meeting was shrouded in secrecy, what’s going on?

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER:.
Well it was a private meeting, in actual fact there was nothing much that arose out of that meeting..

MELINDA JAMES:
…who called that meeting?

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.
..the Chief Minister did…but the point is out of all this that the Chief Minister has made herself completely irrelevant within this whole debate with the head in the sand approach, I mean when you stick your head in the sand you sort of tend to miss what’s going on in the world around you and that is exactly what’s happening with the Chief minister….things have moved on now and the Chief Minister has sort of caught in some time warp back in 30 years ago…

MELINDA JAMES:
Well David Tollner can I put something to Trish Crossin?

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
..if I ca get a chance to respond…

MELINDA JAMES:
Can I ask you what you know about the Territory Governments attempts to seek legal advice, about fighting this proposal?

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
Well everyone is seeking legal advice about how they can stop this barbaric, arm twisting exercise on behalf of the commonwealth, Clare Martins position on this has been exemplary she is standing up for the territory, she is actually trying to do the best she can to say to the Howard Government that we are the democratically elected government of the NT we have passed laws in relation to this, and you simply can not and should not steam roll those laws and can I just say this..though…

MELINDA JAMES:
Could the Territory government have been quicker off the mark and got in before the federal government introduced legislation that effectively stops any possibility of a legal challenge?

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
No body expected, but we should have expected that the federal Government would lie about this, And David Tollner is lied about this, I have a transcript in front of me of three radio interviews of last September and October, where Dave you say this “I am not going to sit around and watch a nuclear waste dump be put in the NT. These are people who are habitual liars and what we were expecting was at least the two CLP elective members of the Territory Dave and Nigel would actually stand up for the territory, never before have we see3n federal government override territory laws, we have one individual seeked to do it on the euthanasia issue, but be have never seen the government trample over the Territory government in this way.

MELINDA JAMES:
Dave Tollner can I just ask you to briefly explain that dramatic turn around?

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.
Well the fact is that we were lied to, I’ no different then any other Territorian here, we were told in the lead up to the election that this would not be coming on the mainland of Australia…

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
And isn’t that the very reason that you should now be saying to your government start telling the truth to Territorians and I am not going to back you legislation I want a due and proper process…

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.
…hang on Trish..hang on the fact is that the CLP has shouted long and hard about our discussed to being lied to. Lets get over that issue, the fact that there is a lot of benefits in this for the NT that is evidence in the fact that the Chamber of Commerce and the Minerals Council…

LABOR SENATOR TRISH CROSSIN:
..they have not come out publicly. ..they have not come out publicly. And supported you…

CLP'S FEDERAL MEMBER FOR SOLOMON DAVID TOLLNER.
They have so, they have so,,,

MELINDA JAMES:
We are running out of time..we are running out of time and I would like to do a brief run around of all our guests this evening..very briefly Dave Sweeny the Australian Conservation Foundation has backed some big campaigns, Territory campaigns in the past for example Jabiluka, how far are you prepared to take this fight?

AUSTRALIAN CONSERVATION FOUNDATION'S DAVE SWEENEY:
This is a big fight this is a national issue there are 100 of communities thousands of kilometers, in along the route to where this waste is to where they want to dump it, there are huge democratic process, environmental, social and cultural issues, we are going to fight this long and hard and we call on senator scullion do you want to be the stand up senator or do you want to be nuclear Nigel, stand up when this legislation is introduced and say no, and that is the way we get what we need to do which is get people around the table to work out how to responsibly deal with waste rather then play politics.

MELINDA JAMES:
Dr Ron Cameron can I let you have the final word, If you scientists have been in charge of this process rather then the politicians how differently would you have run things?

THE AUSTRALIAN NUCLEAR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANISATION DR RON CAMERON:
I think certainly there were many sites that we would have looked at and we would have certainly chosen a site that we could satisfy the best international criteria, our concern is by delaying it with these sort of debates where we are creating the impression that this material is hazardous and very dangerous which it isn’t and we know how to handle this material safely, it is handled safely round the world it is transported safely round the world and we know how to lock this material away so that is not going to be any safety risk to people so I think we should just get on and do what countries have done around the world have had the issues disappear ain a short period of time and people have come to accept that these facilities can be run safely and well.

CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL'S DAVID ROSS
..if that’s the case then engineer it and store it at Lucas Heights ..

MELINDA JAMES:
And that is all we have time for I'd like to thank all our guests very much for joining us.

And I hope tonight's discussion has been informative .... Given some of the comments we've heard - the debate over radioactive waste and nuclear energy more generally will be certain to rage on for some time.

Have a great weekend and see you next week when we'll bring you the program from Katherine. Goodnight.