Norman Fry interviewed re Radioactive Waste Dump

Friday, 21 October 2005
105.7 - 8DDD FM - DRIVETIME

Here's a turn up for the nuclear waste dump debate for the Northern Territory. The Northern Land Council have asked the federal government to give them more options and indeed, more involvement, in the choice of the site for the proposed nuclear waste dump for the Territory. Concerns about having it railroaded onto land that's not suitable is part of it. They want the Territory government to talk turkey as well as get involved in the discussion rather than oppose it. They're asking for the federal government to cooperate as well. Norman Fry is chief executive of the Northern Land Council. I caught up and had a chat with him about half an hour ago, and my first question was well, what exactly are you asking the federal government for.

FRY THE FULL COUNCIL OF THE NORTHERN LAND COUNCIL HAS IN FACT CALLED FOR AN AMENDMENT TO THE COMMONWEALTH'S RADIOACTIVE WASTE MANAGEMENT BILL 205; SO THAT A LAND COUNCIL, AND THERE ARE FOUR OF THEM IN THE TERRITORY, CAN NOMINATE AN ALTERNATIVE SITE IN THE TERRITORY FOR A WASTE FACILITY, PROVIDED THAT TRADITIONAL OWNERS AGREE AND SACRED SITES AND ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES CONTINUE TO BE PROTECTED UNDER THE CURRENT LEGISLATION REGIMES, BOTH COMMONWEALTH AND THE TERRITORY.

REPTR So at this stage, you don't have a site that you are proposing the dump should go at?

FRY ABSOLUTELY NOT. WHAT WE'RE ASKING IS THAT TRADITIONAL OWNERS BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY WHEREVER THEY ARE RIGHT THROUGHOUT THE NORTHERN TERRITORY, SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE A LOOK AT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE. IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE AS A TERRITORY SHOULD BE SAYING ABSOLUTELY NO TO, AND THE NORTHERN TERRITORY GOVERNMENT DOES NOT SPEAK ON BEHALF OF TRADITIONAL ABORIGINAL OWNERS IN THE NORTHERN TERRITORY; LET'S BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT. AND 50% OF THE LAND MASS OF THE NORTHERN TERRITORY IS NOT UNDER ANY NORTHERN TERRITORY TITLE OR REGIME, IT COMES FROM THE COMMONWEALTH, AND SO THAT MEANS THAT THE NORTHERN TERRITORY REALLY, THE GOVERNMENT THAT IS, DOES NOT NECESSARILY SPEAK ON LAND MATTERS FOR HALF THE TERRITORY'S LAND MASS; OR FOR THAT MATTER, 50,000 TERRITORIANS WHO HAPPEN TO BE INDIGENOUS LANDOWNERS.

REPTR Have you spoken with people who have said to you gee, this is a good idea, we should look at trying to get it here?

FRY NO, WE DON'T GO ABOUT IT LIKE THAT. WHAT WE'RE DOING IS TRYING TO HEAD OFF THE COMMONWEALTH RADIOACTIVE WASTE MANAGEMENT BILL WHICH ACTUALLY OVERRIDES ALL SACRED SITES LEGISLATION AND RIGHTS OF ABORIGINAL PEOPLE; SO THAT TRADITIONAL LANDOWNERS AND IN PARTICULAR, LAND COUNCILS, CAN BE AFFORDED THE RIGHT TO HAVE THE INFORMATION PUT BEFORE THEM, SO THAT TRADITIONAL OWNERS CAN MAKE AN INFORMED CONSENT IN RESPONSE TO THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.

REPTR Do you believe that with those inclusions you could facilitate the government being able to choose a site for nuclear waste in the Northern Territory?

FRY WELL, THAT'S THE CHALLENGE FOR THE COMMONWEALTH, TERRITORY AND FOR OURSELVES BECAUSE AT THE MOMENT, THIS IS AN AUSTRALIAN ISSUE; THIS IS A NATIONAL ISSUE. IT'S NOT SOMETHING JUST FOR THE NORTHERN TERRITORY, IT'S SOMETHING THAT ALL GOVERNMENTS IN AUSTRALIA HAVE GOT TO FACE UP TO. WE JUST HAPPEN TO BE UNDER THE PRESSURE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE A TERRITORY, WE'RE NOT A STATE; AND THIS IS NOT ABOUT STATEHOOD, AND THIS IS NOT THE WAY THAT YOU GO BATTING FOR STATEHOOD. THIS IS A VERY IMMATURE APPROACH BY CLARE MARTIN. UNDER CLARE MARTIN AND THE CURRENT NORTHERN TERRITORY GOVERNMENT, THEY'VE ALREADY GIVEN UP THE POWER OF REGULATING URANIUM MINING. NOW, ONE HAS TO ASK, THIS IS THE LARGEST SECTOR OR THE LARGEST INDUSTRY IN THE NORTHERN TERRITORY, MINING, AND URANIUM MINING IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT SECTORS OF THAT MINING; AND IF THE E.P.A. UP HERE, WHICH IS THE EDUCATION PROTECTION AUTHORITY, WHICH IS THE DEPARTMENT OF MINES AND ENERGY, ISN'T GOING TO REGULATE FUTURE URANIUM MINES, THEN WHAT ARE ALL THESE COMPANIES OUT THERE LOOKING FOR? BECAUSE IF THEY FIND URANIUM, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO MINE IT, AND I CAN SEE A WHOLE LOT OF POLITICAL AND LEGAL ISSUES COMING UP. AND NOW WE'VE GOT THE ISSUE THAT'S REALLY CHUCKED THE CAT AMONGST THE PIGEONS UP HERE; I MEAN, BOTH THE COUNTRY LIBERAL PARTY AND THE NORTHERN TERRITORY LABOR PARTY, BOTH OF THEM HAVE GOT TO PULL THEIR HEADS OUT OF THE GROUND AND REALLY START HAVING A LOOK AT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE. AND IT'S NOT SURPRISING THAT ONCE AGAIN, THIS MORIBUND PARLIAMENT UP HERE, THE NORTHERN TERRITORY PARLIAMENT WHICH REALLY ISN'T A PARLIAMENT; THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY, THEY'RE ALL M.L.A.'S; AND THESE PEOPLE HAVE GONE OFF AND ONCE AGAIN, FORGOTTEN ABOUT BLACKFELLAS. YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE TYPES OF ISSUES AND GIVEN THAT TRADITIONAL ABORIGINAL PEOPLE MAKE UP SOMETHING LIKE NINE OUT OF 10 PERSONS OUTSIDE THOSE METROPOLITAN AREAS AND CITIES, THE NORTHERN LAND COUNCIL, THE CENTRAL LAND COUNCIL, ANINDILYAKWA AND TIWI LAND COUNCILS, ARE REALLY, REALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE PEOPLES THAT HAVE BEEN DISADVANTAGED FOR FAR TOO LONG; AND QUITE FRANKLY, INSTEAD OF THE IDEOLOGICAL POSITION THAT'S BEING PUT FORWARD BY THE NORTHERN TERRITORY PARLIAMENT, WE BELIEVE THAT THE CHIEF MINISTER HAS IN FACT LED THE NORTHERN TERRITORY LABOR PARTY AND THE PARLIAMENT UP HERE, OR THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY, INTO TOTAL IRRELEVANCY. QUITE FRANKLY, THESE PEOPLE, THESE PEOPLE TAKE ABORIGINAL PEOPLE'S VOTES FOR GRANTED, AND FOR FAR TOO LONG WE'VE BEEN VOTING FOR THESE PEOPLE AND THERE'S JUST BEEN NO DELIVERY. AFTER FOUR AND A BIT YEARS NOW, TIME'S UP. AND IF THE NORTHERN TERRITORY WANTS TO LOOK AT THIS IN TERMS OF STATEHOOD, THEN REALLY, THE MESSAGE THAT IT'S SENDING TO CANBERRA IS THAT NOT ONLY ARE WE NOT READY TO BE A STATE, BUT WE CAN'T HANDLE ANYTHING THAT'S, YOU KNOW, 3-D, THREE DIMENSIONAL IN POLITICAL TERMS.

REPTR What I need to understand from you though is that you would be telling the federal government that it is possible that a group like the Northern Land Council would be prepared to have discussions about hosting the dump on their site.

FRY WE WOULD BE PREPARED, AS I SAID, TO HAVE AN AMENDMENT PUT INTO THE COMMONWEALTH RADIOACTIVE WASTE MANAGEMENT BILL SO THAT A LAND COUNCIL, AND THERE ARE FOUR OF US IN THE TERRITORY, CAN NOMINATE AN ALTERNATIVE SITE IN THE NORTHERN TERRITORY FOR A WASTE FACILITY, IF INDEED SUCH A FACILITY IS TO END UP IN THE TERRITORY. ALL FOUR LAND COUNCILS SHOULD BE AFFORDED TO SIT DOWN WITH TRADITIONAL OWNERS. OTHERWISE, WE WILL WAKE UP TOMORROW MORNING AND IT COULD BE ANYWHERE IN ANY FOUR OF THE LAND COUNCILS' JURISDICTIONS WITHOUT ANY INFORMED CONSENT OR WITHOUT ANY PROVISIONS AT ALL FOR COMEBACK BY ANY OF THOSE FOUR LAND COUNCILS.

REPTR The federal government tells us they're under some amount of time pressure to make a decision. What sort of timeframe do you think you could reach, or the land councils in the Territory, could reach an agreement with over where a prospective site for it might be?

FRY WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TIMEFRAMES ARE THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO BUT CERTAINLY SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I WOULD SEE AS A PROCESS THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, A VERY, VERY TIMELY ONE, AND A VERY, VERY TIME CONSUMING ONE, AND ONE THAT WOULD TAKE A FAIR AMOUNT OF TIME. THERE'S A LOT OF HYSTERIA, A LOT OF EMOTION, A LOT OF NONSENSE THAT HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, INVOLVED WITH THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, AND THAT'S GOING TO TAKE A WHILE TO WORK THROUGH. SO I'M LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, A YEAR OR TWO. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.

REPTR Norman Fry, we appreciate your talking with us this afternoon. It's been good to have a chat.

FRY THANK YOU.